The Irish Handball Discussion Site

Dear handball Friends,

I am writing to you all because senior handball is on its knees.

I am writing this to you as the guy who revived senior handball in the 90s.

the answer is very simple. We have to work together to find the solution.

This is not an IOHA board member speaking, this is a handball fanatic something we all are.

men's and women's senior handball is dead and it is our own fault.

winning a title became all that mattered to all of us and we didn't try to develop the game anywhere.

Kildare is dead DCU is dead St pats is dead 3 teams three clubs and don't get me started on women's teams.

next year 3 teams in a league. that is not a league it's a joke.

4 men's teams is a joke.

we have all become so engrossed in winning a league that we have forgotten why we play the game. we enjoy it.

We started home and away games to bring up the level, we did that and we lost teams, players who wanted to learn and Irish people who might have gotten involved in the game.

we ended up with a group of elitists in every club that just focused on a team and did nothing to develop other teams so that we could grow

BY ALL ACCOUNTS SEND THIS AROUND TO EVERYONE BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH.

Now we have to look at solutions to this problem not at the problem.

Most teams will not train junior squads that in itself is a problem but not a solution.

So in the short term what can we do?

Lughnasa will enter two teams in the league. we will forgo the chance of winning the league by breaking up our squad for the betterment of the league.

I suggest that every team do the same in the short term.

HERE IS MY THINKING

There are lots of players who just want to play don't want to train. let's form them into teams. DCU should do everything to form a team doesn't matter about the level.

DI have enough from St pats and themselves to form two teams. Kldare and a few others form a team. UCD and Astras form two teams. UCC form a team. Ok the level might not be so high but we at least will have a league wityh matches every two weeks which is what we all want.

Every college enter a team into inter varsities becomes a 2nd division team.

Here's the plan

IOHA organises a FINAL 4 competition for men and women

One saturday finals day, for this each club enters their strongest team and there is a draw for semi final places

Final and 3rd place happens on the Sunday

There is a small plaque for winning the league, but the Final 4 is the main trophy

The top 3 teams from this go to Europe if they wish.

For Women

Lughnasa will enter 2 teams

We implore the colleges and other teams to split to find more teams

if we don't we are in trouble

we have no chance of survival and we will have to start all over again


This way we give ebveryone a chance to play to enjoy and bring back the great spirit handball used to have which has not been there in a long time



I will not initiate any of this. Neither will the board of the IOHA. It is up to seniors to do this. Teams can of course sit at games with 14 players on the bench but you will be wasting your time.

if we don't do this we are lost. and we will lose whatever good young players we have.

So dwell on it discuss send to everyone and remember there are enough weekends still left to play tough matches against squads of players Di and Lughnasa have already done this a lot

Yours in Handball

--
Tom Ó Brannagáin

well TOM and the IOHA killed the senior handball as two teams stopped existing because of Tom's and IOHA's policy and procedure. meaning the lads were still around, they simply didn't want to get involved with the IOHA anymore.
Also TOM idea to exclude colleges will kill handball even further as handball came back to life in the 90's and survived till now only thanks to colleges team.
Anyway. ASTRA men will have two teams (one being UCD) this year and we are looking into if it is feasible having 3 teams.
ladies, so far we have 4 teams already without Lughnasa and if Lughnasa will present 2 teams then we have 6 team.

On another note, Kildare is not dead, it is simply going through a tough time. ASTRA is helping Kildare to survive by keeping the senior players in the game, and anyway at Junior level Kildare is very much alive. Same with DCU. the team didn't start because nobody was around during the summer to organise it, but again I've contacted the players already and for this year they should join ASTRA in Hopefully a 3rd team (we have a bunch of people from Sligo as well). So We hope to find the right guy to revive DCU next year.

See, the situation is not as Tom depicted, but kind of better. TOM and IOHA distorted vision of reality ruined handball over the last two year. I hope this trend will not continue.

It is True the Colleges created teams of elitists and nothing at junior level. But 1) this raised quickly the level of handball in Ireland 2) it is a reality we can't ignore but we have to embrace. The reality is that senior handball in Ireland is played by 70% non Irish so it survive only thanks to them. And it will survive for longer only thanks to them as club with junior are not there yet in decent number. And thanks to IOHA policy, these club will be never be there. The policy the IOHA is trying to enforced failed for 35 years (handball in Ireland arrived in 1975) and sure didn't do anything in the last 10 when I saw it moving. If all, I saw clubs disappearing only thanks to IOHA policy. So how long...how many data point the IOHA needs before changing procedures and attitude?

Obviously I didn't put Tom in This e-mail as I wasn't in his last (clearly he sees me as nevative figure for Irish handball), but feel free to forward to whoever you want....actually I might put a not on the blog to get people feed back

sorry, but have to make another note..
it is very short sight to think that handball development is done by asking the few teams that have problems to survive to split in two, and then...ask the to pay double entry fees (?).
I think the solution is to have a long term vision and take the hit one year, but help these clubs to survive and be here next and the following years (as I did with UCD for many years). Helping new clubs to come up and become stable with whatever means they need the most (as I'm doing with Astra).

I'll definitely move this on the blog....too juicy to have it via mail only

We have just received an e-mail from "the guy who revived senior handball in the 90s". Handball in Ireland may be going through times of trouble and idendity crisis, but we can all console ourselves with the fact that Mr. Ó Branngain's sense of self worth remains as robust as ever. Modesty was never his middle name. Here are some responces to some of Tom's statements and suggestions.

"We have to work together to find a solution". Since Tom et al captured the Board it has been impossible for anyone outside of Tom's cirle of friends to work within the IOHA. They have not been listened to; they have not been trusted or valued; their work has been dismissed, undermined and overruled. Their motives have been questions, their contribution sneered at and their persona ridiculed. Lughnasa players have withdrawn from all projects run by these persons. As a result, these persons have all left, one after the other, so we are now in a situation where the only ones left within the IOHA apparatus are from Lughnasa or members of Tom's fan club. To talk of working together, as if our divisiveness is a result of some accidental and momentary lack of communication and concentration, is a bit rich. Bit late grabbing your arse now. The shit is out.

"Men's and women's senior handball is dead and it is our own fault". Personally, I refuse to shoulder any responsibility for the death of senior handball. And like in the case of Mark Twain, it's death is much exaggerated. It is not much worse off now than it has been for years. Astra will have 2-3 men's team in the league, ID has a team, hopefully DCU, and according to Tom, Lughnasa could have 2 teams. Ao it;s up to them to come aboard and make the league worthwhile. There should be 4 women's team, including Meath, and if Lughnasa actually joins, we can have 1 or 2 more, bigger thatn it has been for years. The biggest problems for the leagues over the last couple of years have been massive fees, Tom's demands holding the men's league at ransom last year and Lughnasa's withdrawal from the women's league in mid-season. This is not "our fault".
"Most teams will not train junior squads" Not just Lughnasa, but Astra, Meath, Kildare and Sligo all train junior squads. Astra has junior squads, senior student squads and senior non-student squads. What Tom is trying to say that only Lughnasa gives a damm about the kids and is the only club that puts any effort into junior development. That's rubbish. In fact, I think that all club are doing as much at each level as their resources allow them, resourches such as money, halls, coahces, link to schools and youth groups etc. As it happens, Lughnasa has all these resources at their disposal. Some clubs have none of them.
Women's league: "Lughnasa will enter 2 teams." Last year Lughnasa entered one team, which then withdrew after a few matches. Are we seriously belive that they will now enter 2 teams and actually stick to the schedule? I have absolutely no reason to trust Tom on this matter.
"We implore the colleges and other teams to split and find more teams ...Teams can of course sit at matches with 14 players on the bench but you will be wasting your time." A few remarks: 1. You start your letter by saying that "this is not an IOHA board member speaking, this is a handball fanactic." If it's only you personally and not the board speaking, where does this "we" suddenly come into play? A royal we perhaps, in line with inflated ego. 2. Please refrain from telling other clubs how they are to organise their teams and split up their squads. All clubs are entering as many teams as they think is realistcally possible, given their number at trainings and the fact that not everyone is available for all matches. They do not need sermons from a Simon Cowell wannabe on this issue. 3. Check your rule book. You can't have 14 people on the bench. Some avtually have to be on the court. So yes, your probably would be wasting your time if all 14 sat on the bench. That's about the only truth in your whole contribution.

here Tom Reply to Andres
Ah the usual someone is to blame.

Not interested.

However am very interested in Astras entering 3 teams.

Fantastic news. And if as Andres suggests DCU are a team again even better.

Yours in handball

Tom

What I am doing below is:
1) I take Tom’s message (in italics) and add my comments on it without yet going into discussion of content
2) I add a my contributions for further discussion

Dear handball Friends,
I am writing to you all because senior handball is on its knees.
The picture painted here tries to evoke ‘catastrophic feelings’. This way of addressing an audience is highly polemic and is used widely for ideological introduction. I don’t know if Tom does this consciously (my guess would be, he doesn’t) – but it is important to keep in mind that the picture of ‘senior handball on its knees’ is not necessarily helpful in analyzing developments that led to a situation that is perceived as problematic, i. e. having a decrease in numbers of senior teams involved in handball.
I am writing this to you as the guy who revived senior handball in the 90s.
Next picture – Tom, the guy who revived senior handball in the 90’s. Question: single-handedly? Where there no other people involved in handball in Ireland at the time? Also: When I arrived in Ireland in the year 2000 (that is after Tom supposedly revived senior handball) I found UCD, DCU, Lughnasa and Pelekas playing as senior teams in the male section (of which two were college teams). Female senior teams at the time there were only Meath and Terenure. So effectively a number of teams more or less equal to the current state of affairs. Not necessarily a very vivid situation as such, particularly if one considers the presence of handball outside the area of Dublin/Meath.
the answer is very simple. We have to work together to find the solution.
The claim to ‘work together’ is often used as a ‘killer argument’ because no-one can challenge it without putting her/himself in a position where s/he can be labeled ‘uncooperative’, ‘destructive’ etc. However it is always important to see also who claims to ‘work together’ and under what conditions. When the British colonized Ireland they would also claim the best thing was to ‘work together’ …
It is thus important to actually define what ‘working together’ in a given situation means and what shares either party in the process of ‘working together’ has.
It is pretty obvious that IOHA in recent years has not been an organization that would have created an atmosphere of ‘working together’ for a lot of its members, quite the opposite. This has to be kept in mind when analyzing the current situation.
This is not an IOHA board member speaking, this is a handball fanatic something we all are.
Fair enough. I have no doubts about Tom’s commitment to handball as a sport and I would always describe him as a handball fanatic. Yet, it is not enough to say ‘I am not writing as a board member’ …
Tom, you are a board member, to ignore that fact is simply wrong. Yourself being a board member is by the way reflected further below in your message also when you make suggestions.
men's and women's senior handball is dead and it is our own fault.
Same coment as above – painting ‘catastrophic picture’, here now combined with a generalizing of responsibility: ‘it is our own fault’. This is a very common strategy employed in all areas of social life, which makes everyone accountable for everything. Who in a given situation is ‘we’ is not defined. (In a different context this is common knowledge: when the employers start talking in terms of ‘we all have to tighten our belts’ … it is time for high alert for the employed!)
It avoids analysis of particular activities of particular people in their respective positions. In our context it avoids looking at the historic developments over the last say 10 years within IOHA and the responsibilities (doings!) of individuals for certain developments.

winning a title became all that mattered to all of us and we didn't try to develop the game anywhere.
This continues to speak of ‘we’ – a generalizing statement that in this way is simply not right. Some people prioritized winning titles (ironically in my eyes Lughnasa would have been a prototypical example, but again, that is my impression, other people may have other opinions here). Other people did not prioritize winning titles. The ‘we’ that Tom tries to create here does not exist.
Kildare is dead DCU is dead St pats is dead 3 teams three clubs and don't get me started on women's teams.
next year 3 teams in a league. that is not a league it's a joke.
4 men's teams is a joke.
This now comes closer to talking about concrete situations. Andrea has more to say on the concrete happenings with Kildare and DCU, I leave that out. For St. Pat’s I understand that St. Pat’s dissolved its team for REASONS. It would be a matter of checking again with the players of former St. Pat’s what these reasons were!
we have all become so engrossed in winning a league that we have forgotten why we play the game. we enjoy it.
A repeat of above.
We started home and away games to bring up the level, we did that and we lost teams, players who wanted to learn and Irish people who might have gotten involved in the game.
This is a sensible comment. It provides the thesis that ‘players who wanted to learn and Irish people’ were lost for handball because ‘we started home and away games to bring up the level’.
The validity of this thesis would have to be examined. In doing so it is necessary to take the teams that were ‘lost’ separately and look at the reasons why they were lost. Stating one possible reason and generalizing it is wrong. Take e. g. St. Pat’s men – I strongly believe that ‘playing home and away matches’ in order to ‘bring up the level’ was NOT the reason for them to dissolve. (Could anyone from former St. Pat’s comment on this?)
Teams that appeared and disappeared over the last couple of years are:
Cork (male/female), Na Fianna Rua (male/female), Lughnasa’s second male team (at the time named ‘Dagda’), Meath (female), Sligo (male), St. Pat’s (male) … not sure, have I forgotten someone, please correct/complete.
I believe in every single case there are different reasons involved, depending on the circumstances at THIS time when the team dissolved.
As for individual players who are ‘lost’ – this is an area of complete guess! It is necessary here also to ask the individual who leaves (or does not get involved in the first place) WHY they do so. Tom’s suggestion is only one possible explanation.
we ended up with a group of elitists in every club that just focused on a team and did nothing to develop other teams so that we could grow
Continuous topic: who is ‘we’? In this way such a statement is simply wrong. As for Andres Eiriksson, Andrea Ongaro, Conall Collier, Olena Karpenko and my humble self I can only say that each of us has done a lot to ‘develop teams’ – this is through facilitating, coaching, organizing in a wide range of areas. If Tom speaks of ‘we’ I reserve the right to at least exclude these people (‘us’) from his ‘we’.
BY ALL ACCOUNTS SEND THIS AROUND TO EVERYONE BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH.
I understand that Andrea intends to open this discussion on his blog. Good idea.

Now we have to look at solutions to this problem not at the problem.
Again this is a polemic phrase – it fits in the context of ideological scripts.
First we present a ‘catastrophe’ that affects ‘everybody’ (=us, we …)
Then we state the reason for the ‘catastrophe’ is in ‘our all wrongdoing’ (by doing so diverting investigation away from individual and concrete responsibility) and that now we have to look at ‘solutions, not problems’.
This type of ideological text-production creates a situation in which the one who presents the text (here: Tom) is likely not to be questioned or criticized for his part in the original development of the ‘problem’. In this he can ‘get away’ with whatever type of personal responsibility he has for the situation that is now stated as ‘problematic’. This type of escaping critique is well known from politics.
Most teams will not train junior squads that in itself is a problem but not a solution.
Here is one that I can only agree with. From our perspective as a club in Sligo that has always concentrated on junior squads, it would certainly be helpful to have more teams in junior age. A little bit more on the developments in junior handball below.
So in the short term what can we do Lughnasa will enter two teams in the league. we will forgo the chance of winning the league by breaking up our squad for the betterment of the league.
This now is what ‘we’ Lughnasa can do. If Lughnasa enters two teams in the league, perfect. Have these teams been registered yet with Andrea? Why point out that you will forgo the chance of winning the league? Are we not all in the game for fun only anyways?
And then, you never know what happens in relation to teams performing. You may still end up winning it …

I suggest that every team do the same in the short term.
HERE IS MY THINKING
There are lots of players who just want to play don't want to train. let's form them into teams. DCU should do everything to form a team doesn't matter about the level.
DI have enough from St pats and themselves to form two teams. Kldare and a few others form a team. UCD and Astras form two teams. UCC form a team. Ok the level might not be so high but we at least will have a league wityh matches every two weeks which is what we all want.
Every college enter a team into inter varsities becomes a 2nd division team.
Here's the plan
IOHA organises a FINAL 4 competition for men and women
One saturday finals day, for this each club enters their strongest team and there is a draw for semi final places
Final and 3rd place happens on the Sunday
There is a small plaque for winning the league, but the Final 4 is the main trophy
The top 3 teams from this go to Europe if they wish.
For Women
Lughnasa will enter 2 teams
We implore the colleges and other teams to split to find more teams
if we don't we are in trouble
we have no chance of survival and we will have to start all over again
This way we give ebveryone a chance to play to enjoy and bring back the great spirit handball used to have which has not been there in a long time
This now is a reasonable contribution, a simple suggestion with some potential to become real. I will discuss the concrete suggestion below also. Let me only make the point about the ‘great spirit’ of handball … another example of the demagogical use of language, these metaphors are used as a pseudo-sacral statement of ‘we are all one great community’, again diverting from potential cleavages of interests and personal responsibilities.
I will not initiate any of this.
By suggesting and circulating the suggestion Tom has already ‘initiated’. No need then to pull out and deny responsibility again. Registering the two Lughnasa teams with Andrea as the organizer of the league will certainly be helpful, whether the registration is done by Tom or another person of Lughnasa does not matter.

Neither will the board of the IOHA. It is up to seniors to do this.
In the context of Tom’s message this statement is an attempt to ‘save face’ for IOHA (the board of management?). It tries to evoke the impression that IOHA would naturally do the ‘right thing’, but now that ‘we’ ‘all’ ‘everyone’ have ‘failed’ so badly, IOHA does not accept any responsibility for the doings of ‘us’ ‘all’ ‘everyone’ and consequently puts ‘us’ ‘all’ ‘everyone’ into ‘our’ place by asking ‘us’ ‘all’ ‘everyone’ to fix the mess that ‘we’ ‘all’ ‘everyone’ have made out of handball in Ireland.
In my opinion this in itself is a scheme that cries out of arrogance. Again, more on this below.
Teams can of course sit at games with 14 players on the bench but you will be wasting your time.if we don't do this we are lost. and we will lose whatever good young players we have.
So dwell on it discuss send to everyone and remember there are enough weekends still left to play tough matches against squads of players Di and Lughnasa have already done this a lot
Yours in Handball
Tom Ó Brannagáin

So far for Tom’s message.
The only factual point that Tom tries to address in his message is the number of teams playing in a senior league (male or female) this season. He ignores the fact that there are a number of issues that clubs have identified as critical within IOHA. However the two areas are interwoven.
As for the senior league:
A decision was made in the AGM in June that the senior league would be organized by the clubs. The senior clubs have done this. Lughnasa decided not to get involved in this process. When the meeting was held in which decisions were made in relation to format, schedule and registration, Lughnasa decided to not take part. Only AFTER the clubs made their decision – and informed all parties involved, including Lughnasa – about these decisions, was it worth for Tom to start raging about these decisions.
The fact that caused most stress for Tom was the decision made by club representatives, to have NO REGISTRATION FEE for playing this year, no registration process with IOHA, but rather organize these parts amongst ourselves.
Over the last couple of years clubs have been treated badly by IOHA, with the exception of probably one club located somewhere in the wider Tallaght area. It is probably not by chance that effectively the board of management of IOHA is controlled by a close circle of members of this club.
It is only NOW that Tom seems to realize that Lughnasa can not exist on their own. His attempt to now play the role of the ‘savior of handball’ (in which he is certainly most experienced after all his eager activity during the 1990’s …) is a rather shallow attempt to save face, and re-gain influence.
While I can not speak for all clubs who are organizing the league this year, I would assume that the people who actually do the work on the ground are rather happy to see Lughnasa-Teams involved in the league, be it one or two or three … However having to deal with the personality of the self-declared savior of handball in Ireland is a rather difficult task. He seems to have no capacity of self-reflection and the letter he posted per e-mail only supports this assumption.
In his reaction to Andres’ response this becomes even more clear. The arrogance with which he simply dismisses Andres’ comments does not help his case either.
So for the senior league arrangements this year are clear. Every team can join the league – without registering with IOHA, without paying a registration fee.
As for the number of teams, Andres has replied to Tom’s painting in black already. If Lughnasa fields two male teams, this will most likely bring a field of five teams together (2 x UCD, 2 x Lughnasa, Dublin International). For the female teams I don’t have actual numbers, presume there is Meath, Astra, St. Pats and Lughnasa, four teams in total.
Whether that is a joke or not, I don’t know. It is at any rate no difference to last year – and no savior’s lament was heard this time last year either.

Let me say a few words on the junior side of things also. In May there was a meeting of all junior clubs in Maynooth. The only club not represented at the time was Lughnasa (the meeting was scheduled weeks in advance!). The clubs decided to run their own league, without involvement of IOHA, similar to what the seniors have done now, i. e. no registration fee, no registration with IOHA necessary. The suggestion of Tom to not have a league and rather play tournaments was discussed but did not find support.
Tom then decided not to play with the Lughnasa-teams in the league. He also accused us (i. e. those who had decided to organize the league) of waging a war against IOHA.
The state of affairs at present in the junior section is thus, that Lughnasa does not play matches with other teams, although they were welcome to do so. There is a clear responsibility for this, and this responsibility lies with Tom. Maybe it is worth putting the whole story to the Lughnasa-players also and ask for their opinion.

Again a little piece of context. It is three years now that I had a chat with Tom about the development of handball in Ireland. In the course of the conversation he said really what should be done was to concentrate the development on the wider Dublin area only and whatever resources are there in IOHA should be used in this area only.
On this background it is rather understandable that the situation of clubs like our own in Sligo is of little concern to the self-proclaimed savior of handball in Ireland, just as it was of no interest when Na Fianna Rua disappeared.
Considering that our club has been a member of IOHA for the last ten years it is a fairly unbalanced relationship when we look at the gains on either side from this membership. Literally ALL competitions that were on offer for our junior teams during this period were organized by either myself or Andres Eiriksson! And yet our players have paid their IOHA-registration fees through our club in the mean time. What did they get back from IOHA?
… insert here: big empty space …
So:
It may seem Tom with his message tries to appear as the one who addresses a problem. In fact, the problem that he poses is already addressed by other people, namely the organizers of the club league!
What he therefore really tries is to save his own position. His conduct as a member of the board of management in contact with clubs and his personal comments on people who have made (and continue to make) immensely valuable contributions to handball development in Ireland have discredited him. In this he was not alone, but rather acted in line with the board of management of IOHA. Where he tries to regain such credit in the way as analysed above, it only adds to the impression that he is either not willing or not capable of reflecting on his own doings.
His request to distribute this discussion widely is very welcome, it is overdue to inform people ‘on the ground’ what goes on behind their backs in the sacred sect of the savior of handball.
The suggestion to play a ‘final four’ for senior teams eventually is only a lame attempt to save the face of IOHA.
To play a final four is just as much possible without IOHA involvement, or does anyone think the clubs are not capable to organize this also?
Tom (as much as everyone on board level) knows that the only thing that IOHA has to offer the senior teams is to forward their eligibility to play in a EHF-competition. For the male section only Dublin International have stated an interest in this so far. Even if Lughnasa hope to do the same, they can both simply be put forward as representatives. (Even playing out a final between these two would be possible, but we remember that titles are obviously not soooo important any more for Tom.) For the female section similar, only teams who wish to play in the Challenge-Cup would have an incentive to deal with IOHA at all.
So in real terms I suggest:
Teams who wish to play in the league this year simply register with Andrea Ongaro. A provisional schedule is in place already, teams can easily fill blank spaces therein – and honestly: two Lughnasa teams would be a good thing to have!
A review-meeting for January has already been agreed between the clubs (again – in absence of a representative of Lughnasa!) in which the progress of the league and the further arrangements from thereon are to be discussed. If clubs feel at that stage, a final four, or any other format of ‘title-race’ makes sense, they may take up this suggestion and follow it through.
Another suggestion that would address the real problem:
The board of management of IOHA may consider to step down, call for an Extraordinary General Meeting and new elections of all officers!
bye
robert

let's clarify how the situation stands at present.
Mens. Kildare club is there, but the senior are not iin a number sufficient to enter a team. those few will join UCD-ASTRA. DCU, players are there, but nobody registered teh club with teh college (as supposed to be done during the summer). UCD-ASTRA is in contact with the players.
So UCD-ASTRA will have two teams, possibly three. Then there is DI and possibly two Lughnasa. so it makes a 5 teams league. Possibly 6.

Women. here we have UCD-Astra, Terenure-Astra, St.Pat's-Astra (yes three teams), then Meath is back, and if Lughnasa has 2 teams it mkes a 6 teams league. Not bad!

I have read Tom's appeal, Andrea's and Robert's critique. DI will not get involved in these altercations over this medium.
The truth is that we who were present on the AGM have agreed on Clubs run league. This has been ignored by the IOHA, so IOHA automatically looses it's legitimacy. Therefore I would support Robert in calling for the election to give newly elected people mandate to run handball in Ireland.
As for the WE RESPONSIBILITY, Dublin International Handball Club is RESPONSIBLE only to and for Dublin International Handball Club. In fact, the team in it's short history has gone from strength to strength and is enjoying great development, support and membership. A well run, organised and successful club is what we contribute to Irish handball, and that's all one club should do. The rest is up to IOHA management.
As for our plans of development, we feel that developing our club, develops Irish handball itself. Our plans are not secret.
1. DI HC does not intend to split the team to give the league more clubs, dilution of quality will not benefit anyone. Should we have more than 25 players on our books, which looks very probable, we will field another team.
2. DI HC will compete for the title and will not need or give any excesses for it. We will not only try win the title but every game we play. When did it become imoral to try and win trophies?
3. One thing where we failed to make the progress we wished is youth teams development. This was due to some unforeseen development of personal nature that needed attention of our youth development organisers. This programme is still on the agenda and will be pursued. However, one young player brought into the club this summer, has already benefited from playing with knowledgeable and experienced team mates. Confirmation of this comes from our opponents in the EC.
4. DI HC will participate in any sensible joint programme for development of league and handball in general.

Boris Selak DI HC Head Coach

Hi Andrea,

I have read all the comments on your blog in relation to the senior leagues.
I tried to reply directly on the blog but as someone who struggles to send an email correctly it didn't work so that is why i am emailing you.

Please feel free to publish this on the blog.

Some of the points made in the blog are justified some are not , however i don't want to get into an argument about them here.

The announcement of new teams or extra teams is to be welcomed. More people playing handball.
Different faces at matches. We (Lughnasa) have played D I 3 times in friendlies this season , I am sure they are sick of the sight of us.

Andrea you amongst others, Ciaran, Brigita and Andres (who resigned mid season) were a member of the league organising committee (COC).
To call it a committee might have been an over statement as I feel you carried out most of the work.

Personally I hope you are not left to carry out the work on your own this season.

The board were not sure whether you would be interested in organising the league this season so that is why we approached Yannic (Astras) and Chris (DI) to ask them to run it.

The board offered them €250 in expenses a month to spend in any way to help improve and raise the standard and profile of the league.
The IOHA would pay for finals day and medals etc.

Where does this money come from? From Player registration and league entry fees.

I wrote a terms of reference for the COC (please find attached) There is nothing radical in it I don't think, just some points the IOHA would to see covered by the COC.

Your point about teams splitting is valid and in the cold light of day Lughnasa might only enter 1 womens team, however our ambition remains to have 2 mens teams. Players are being called out of retirement !!

As for entry fees at the moment it stands at €150 per team. Not a massive amount but for a club who enters 2 teams (or more) maybe €60 each for the 2nd and 3rd team would be appropriate.

Yannic ,Chris and Ciaran are away on International duty this week but when they return I hope
you will consider working with them in forming a strong committee to develop a strong mens and womens league.

The IOHA does not want to run the league directly, it just wants to see a strong, well run competition organised by the member clubs with the aims and objectives of the IOHA at its heart i.e. more people playing, learning to referee and learning to officiate.

Next i just want to clarify 1 thing about the lughnasa "ladies"(the oldest is 17) team and last season.
We did not play a few matches and just pull out. In April the ladies league faced a fixture pile up for one reason or another, no ones fault really just circumstances.
Lughnasa was out of the running for the league and rather than facing the scenario of playing 2 matches a weekend or worse 2 in 1 day we decided to offer our fellow teams walkovers. In some way easing the fixture list in the run up to finals day.

This decision was not taken lightly as it would be denying our girls and the other girls matches.
Regrettable yes but hopefully the situation will not arise for any club this season.

Finally I wish to say I am looking forward to a newly invigorated league this season maybe with 2 divisions where if you want to play handball there is a level you can fit into.

best of luck to everyone in season 09/10

Yours in Handball

Mick.

Mick, it is true that in the past I almost single handledly run the league, but over the last two three year we had a well functioning committee. Bojan, Brigit, Andres, Ciaran, Robert, Padraig can cofirm this. we meet regularly and been in touch and democratically voted on all issue and aspect of all the clubs league in Ireland.
Also your claim that the IOHA is not interested in running the league is very much not credible. Over the last two years it was the very imput that the IOHA had on the league that ruin it. Last year (against my reccomendation) the board also force the league not to start at all!! And this year the board already came out with rules, forms, fees, schedules etc...
Also since we are talking, why DI and ASTRA "ONLY!!" received the affiliation pack on the 20th of August with a deadline for affiliation, registration of all players and payment of 100% of the fees by the 31st of August. While non other Club did? And when Ciaran sent out the schedule in early Sept he suggested a dead line for end Sept and payment of fees by March 2010? why different set of rules for different clubs? And finally, considering the way the new IOHA board treated me as an organiser, as a coach, and as a person, I can state that I'm not interested in working again with peole I've lost any respect for, as no respect and gratitude they showed to have for me and other people.

Looks like somebody has to save the Irish Nationa Squad, as obviously Tom and German Genius are totally not able to.
36-20 against Malta
38-19 agains Finland
and I am looking forward at the match against Scotland.

It would be nice if people sign up their post. I've been asked to remove the last post as it is not fair toward the players, who worked hard. But I believe in freedom of expression even if hard to take. But a remind that what happened in Malta is outside this post. FYI I saw the matches on the web, Maltes TV channel.

I strongly disagree with the sentiment in the anonymous posting re. the national squad in Malta.

All players who are involved in this squad are extremely eager to perform. The majority of these players are also very young. They all know that it is a long way to go for each individual player and for the team as such to achieve a standard of play that is competitive enough to generate better results in international competition.

They are working on it - and in this they can be proud of themselves. It is not an easy task to overcome the difficulties that any individual faces who chose to become a handball player in Ireland. They deserve our support and in my opinion also our praise for their efforts.

There is a good deal of talent in the squad which needs time to mature, and there is more coming after them which needs nurturing.

However patience is essential in such a process. Developments in our environment do not come easy neither will they come fast - but they will come if the players are looked after, coached porperly and taken care of, on the handball court and outside of it.

From my side I can only say, fair play to everybody who is involved in this project. I am glad to see that the boys bet Scotland in their last match. This is certainly a good experience to build on.



robert

Here is my second answer to the call of the Savior. All references to Tom's orignial text are in inverted commas and in bold.
First of all about playing the blame game, in which Tom apparently is not interested. If we are to solve the problems of Irish handball we do need to know what the problems are and this involves identifying what or who is to blame for the current mess. This might be some general situation, even an external one not of our making, but it can also be a policy, a decission or series of incidents innitiated by the IOHA, within the IOHA or within Irish handball. And there are always some people behind this, some individuals of flesh and blood, someone or something someone did must be at fault. Unless this is accepted and discussed in a frank manner, we will not get anywhere.

According to the Savior there are two roots of all evil in Irish senior handball: there is far too much emphasis on winning; and the squads are too big. Neither of these are very convincining and sound more like problems one would associate with the German Bundesliga or the Champions League rather than amatourish messing about that goes on in Ireland.

If we are to believe Tom, there are hords of people out there who would join senior handball if existing players didn't take the game so bloody seriously and weren't so hellbent on winning. Who and exactly are these hidden people of Irish handball and where do they hide? All I know is that they seem to be in need of some professional help, since they are terrified of winning and training and even travelling. "We started home and away games to bring up the level, we did that and we lost teams." When exactly did this happen? Did they get lost on the way to an away match? Has the Garda been informed? May I remind Tom that "home" and "away" matches in the Irish league are usually played in UCD or St. Columbas anyway, irrespective of who is playing. Are the hidden people afraid of these venue? What has home and away games to do with any problems of Irish handball? Ever since Tom had to travel to Clifden for a match he has had a thing about home and away games. Whatever they did to him down there in in the wilds of Connemara they have a lot to answer for. Anyway, if these people really exist, if Tom and the IOHA know who and where they are, that is great news. It is then the job of the IOHA to cater for these people, find a format for them to get together, learn a thing or two about handball and play some matches if they dare, form a 2nd division, development league, call it what you like, and see to this that these people find their way into the Vahalla of Irish handball in spite of their fear of winning, training and travelling and whatever other handicap that may burden them. It is not the job of DI or any other club to alter their own training, policy, goals or structure to act as development officers for the IOHA. Bojan has already dealt with this on behalf of DI and he is absolutely right. International performance of Irish teams, both clubs and the national side, does not indicate that every club is plagued with "a group of elitists", as the Savior will have us believe. To lower the standard further for the sake of a few extra players would be suicidal.
When my son was two years old I gave him a biscuit. He put out his hand and wanted another one. So I broke the biscuit in two and gave him both pieces. He was delighted, now he had two biscuits. This worked until he was three, then he copped on. I am happy to say that his grasp of mathematics has since then drastically improved. Tom's solution to the poroblems of senior handball is in line with this break-the-biscuit-in-two method. If you take the existing number of handball players in Ireland, split them into morre and more and smaller and smalle teams we'll have a thriving handball scene. OK, perhaps we could squeze another team out of the current crop of players, but that is not the solution to anything. We are not two year olds.

The problems of Irish handball are many and varried and qiuck fixes like breaking up squads and playing for fun only will not solve these. On a wide scale we do have a host of problems deriving from the status of handball in Ireland as a minority sport in a sporting culture and within the framework of spors policy which is based on strict division between have-all mainsteam sports and have-not minority sports. Problems deriving from these are endless, the biggest one being the lack of suitable infrastructure. Due to this status of handball within a hostile sports structure we have found it extremely difficult to bring players from a casual and almost accidental aquaintance with the sport in schools and community games to a level of regular participation. This is a situation we have never fully and systematically analysed. What exactly is the situation, how do we deal with it and can we possibly change it?
Regardless of these external problems, the IOHA has had many problems of its own making over the years, at least since the famous 90s when Tom singlehanded resuced Irish handball. The two main problems in my view have been fiirstly lack of communication and transperancy; and secondly the tendency to formulate IOHA policy to please and cater for the demands of the Irish Sports Council rather than to tackle the realities of handball in Ireland.
Over the last couple of years other problems have emerged within the IOHA, coinciding with Tom's takover of the Board, which has now been transformed into the Savior and his side-kicks. We now have a situation where everything must be done in accordance with the will and the whims of Tom. Here are some examples:
1. At the start of last season Tom did not want Lughnsasa play in the men's league because he ws unhappy with the bahaviour of DI. The IOHA -including myself, I admit- gave in on this and started a series of meeting between this committee and that committee on rules and regulations and laws and by-laws and what have you for over 3 months while the league was postponed. Practically everyone in the association become involved in this utter futility, all except Tom of course, who after a week or two couldn't really care less. When Tom sometime in January or February decided on second thougt that the league wasn't perhaps such a bad idea it was allowed to go ahead.
2. After a few games in the senior women's league Lughnasa decided that the league wasn't really their thing and just quit playing. No apology, no repercussions, just we'll do what suits us, fuck the rest.
3. It was decided by the IOHA, with the agreement of Tom, that Andrea Ongaro would train the national women's team and make a development plan for the future. Obviosuly, that plan would evolve around Terenure and Lughnasa players. Very soon, however, Tom took a personal disliking to Andrea and therefore Lughnasa players withdrew from the programme. It has now been abandoned, at least for the time being.
4. Same story with Robert Hamm's U15 boys team. Tom doesn't like Robert, Lughnasa boys stop attending training.
5. Representatives of the youth teams came together and decides to run a league. Lughnsasa did not attend, perhaps afraid to travel to Maynooth or couldn't afford it in the current economic climate. In spite of the league being the will of a clear majority, in fact all who attended the meeting, Tom, on behalf of the IOHA, answered with a snooty letter saying that once again you all fail to grasp this and that and the IOHA will not sanction any league and Lughnasa will not participate.

This has been they way the IOHA has been run of late. There is a complete lack of democracy, it's all ruling from above. It's not that all the stuff that Tom and the Board have done and come up with is is bad. The U13 Youth Academy was a great idea. Having fun open youth tournaments is fine. But that does not exlcude a youth league. The problem is the complerte lack of democracy, lack of respect for and trust in people outside of Tom's inner circle, constant overruling and interference in the work of these people. More and more people have come to the conclusion that it now pointless to wrok within or engage with the IOHA. And this includes the likes of myself, Robert, Andrea and many more, who have spent years working within the IOHA to the benefit of Irish handball, or so we thought. We have effectively been told to bugger off and mind our own business. So why should we suddenly accept some collective guilt for the woes of Irish senior handball listen to hollow "we must all work together" pleas, which mostly invloves interference with the way DI, Astra and other clubs are run and set up their teams. Wouldn't be the simplest thing just for clubs to enter teams into the league, as many as want and realistically can, without sudden withdrawals and tantrums, overcome the home and away complex, and let a competition committee or whoever is in charge of running the league do the rest without interferance. And meanwhile the IOHA can drag the hidden handballers of the no training, no winning, no travelling type out from their nooks and crannies and into a division 2 or fun for all blitzes or some sort of a handball version of tag rugby. And sure, we'll all be grand as long as us lesser mortals don't get in the way of the Savior.

I think the home-away concept should be clarified. I don't think Tom is against the home-away concept and hopefully is not making the war to some travel. what he is more concern is that in a league with 6 teams there can be 3 matches played in 3 different venue, may be at exactly the same time, which makes it very difficult to find referees. I think Tom would like to go back to a system where one venue is booked for the entire day and all matches are played there. This Idea should be considered, but we need to see what today situation is. There are probably 3 group of clubs. Those without a own hall and in the greater Dublin Area. These will certainly be in favour of such solution. Then there are teams like UCD and DCU. These already have a hall for home matches and they don't pay for it. so pay for an external hall is just a waste of money. Then finally the 3rd group. those from outside Dublin. with an home away solution they would have to travel to dublin 3 times (again in a 6 teams league). and the other teams would have to travel out once each. But in a concentrated solution the outsiders woud have to travel to Dublin 6 times (5 best case if they get a concentration at home) So nothing to gain here. Then Tom Idea is that the IOHA do the booking and teams pay a fixed rate. Unfortunately there is no trust whatsoever toward the IOHA. they overcharge players for the registration, overcharge for the affiliation, overcharge for team entry, overcharged for referee fees. now they would simply overcharge for hall time. We know that development of clubs is not done by squeezing any penny out of the few clubs we have. Again the idea should be considered because the advantage of getting refs, but many other factor should be considered.
Also. yes this solution worked in the past, but back then there was no ladies league (we played all happily together) and the league had 6 teams only all in Dublin, so 3 matches per week. We got UCD for free everytime and nobody bothered to check who was actually playing. So a very different situation.

I only began to read this website just now(its been a while) before sending out my views via email to all of ye today :(

whoever wrote that anonymous post should be shot.its that kind of attitude that gets us nowhere. Congrats to those defending the honour of our national mens squad. Our team is very young, 7 of us playing are over 22 while 10 others that came to Malta are under that age.then u have to bring in the 4 juniors that came with us to Germany.

We all put in a lot of effort in the gym and with our club trainings over the summer to improve and i can safely say I'm a proud Irishman to play handball for my country coming away from Malta.

True, we had a distrastous start against Malta.I think the occasion got to some of the young lads playing but we played with pride in the 2nd half of that game, and despite what the scoreline suggests vs Finland, they were a class before the rest,they beat malta by more or less the scoreline as us.

And if that anonymous person reveals himself, you would have been made feel about 2ft tall cos the Finns would have beaten you to death with their handball skills,made you go home crying and have ur head between your legs.

It was a edgy win against scotland where we should have won by more than 6 goals but we won,maybe 15. we didnt come last like Irish teams have done in the past and I was happy to see my family come over to support us Bhoys in Green. Where was the rest of the support?

This is what we need for the future. Support for each other. Getting a crowd to support our game. Furthermore Id like to see Lads pushing each other for places on the national team,not like in the past, 'Oh you're Irish, here's a jersey'.
I'm glad now that there are other lads wanting to take the jersey off my back, the next step is to have 10 more lads wanting to take away my jersey

This is what I sent earlier for those whose emails addresses I dont have


To all the Handball Community in Ireland,

Is there any way we can resolve this issue as promptly as possible so we can stop all this bickering and we don't have a repeat of last year's league? All this finger pointing is not really beneficial for the future of handball in Ireland.

Now I know a lot of ye know who I am but there are others who don't. I started out as an absolute beginner in UCD in 2003/04 season but with the right encouragement and my own motivation to better myself, I am now part of the mens Irish squad. Within that time, i have seen the number of teams decrease in participating in the league. when i was there, there 8,maybe 9 mens teams.
Now there is just 3 teams. I find this hard to swallow. We have to look at the reasons why this is so. I know the reasons for the college teams: there were no students on the team or rather the majority of them weren't students, and the colleges found out and kicked them out. Then there were no college teams. (I know from St. Pats, DIT, DCU, and UCD).Then, those who were not students couldnt play, had to join clubs that werent affiliated with a college and BOOM, squad numbers increased.

As a neutral within this argument (believe me, I am, I am taking no sides), both 'parties' have made some valid points in diagnosing the problems and airing their grievances but this is not about us, its about the game. I am not going to go into this arguments as from reading Andrea's and Robert's emails, it felt like I was reading a book(no offence) :) but their points are made, so are Tom's.

Anyway, I suggest that there should be a EGM at IOHA HQ where all handball people representing all corners of Ireland come together in a professional manner, leaving all personal dislikes outside the room, and knuckle down to find what is the best possible solution for the future of our game. Face to face!! Even national team players should turn up, air their views, give their own opinions, both men and women, senior and junior.

I love playing this game.I just want to play handball and reach the highest level i can possibly reach. I even come up from Kilkenny every weekend so that i could have a few handballs thrown at me (I'm not a sick person, I'm a goalkeeper :p) I used to do the same coming up from Cork earlier this year. I would love to play competitive games as much as possible but we should look at spreading the game outside of The Pale(includes Kildare, westmeath, Meath, Wicklow). Robert Hamm does have some sort of structure in Sligo but from what I heard, the interest is not the same as it was 5 years ago when i went there on a weekend trip. I dont know why.but it might be cos he is only concentrating on juniors?!?!

My next suggestion would be to have a big weekend tournament of handball games in any given area. For example, I am working tirelessly with the committee in UCC to have a date confirmed for a one day tournament. December 5th! this, we hope, will be confirmed on Monday.
That way, Handball players(competitive and recreational) can go off to another place outside Dublin for a weekend, play some games, stay overnight and socialise with others. This could also be done in ther places like Sligo, Clifden, I''m sure I could even organise one in Kilkenny next year. Would people be interested in that?

Any feedback I would appreciate as everyone's voice should be heard rather than the same voices. Maybe that is what is needed for Irish handball. Fresh voices with fresh ideas.

Yours in sport,
Benny O'Regan

Hi all,

My name is Amélie, the coach at the UCC Olympic Handball Club.

I completely understand all your frustrations but first we have to think about the passion of handball, train, play because we love it.

We are trying to get our tournament on the 5th of december and once it will be confirmed by UCC we will be happy to contact teams to come to play here in Cork, as said Benny to create a great social handball time.

My goal in this role is too share my passion and teach as much as I can and see handball players having a good handball time and not handball fights.
Tournaments are great, because you need to meet other teams to improve your individuals and collectives tactics.
Winning is great when you worst it.
And loosing is great too because it is a good challenge too to try to improve our/your collectif :-)

I have to meet with the UCC committee this week to see what is happening and I will be in touch as soon as possible.
Amelie

Benny, Amelie, thanks for your comments. Benny, yours are a bit inacurate, like assuming Robert is only focusing on junior, hence absence of senior in Sligo. Believe me, Robert is trying hard to get a senior team going in Sligo. Also your analysis of the booming and deflating of number of teams is rather wrong. We had a large number of teams because of the strong imigration and because one student per team was taking care of the club. We had 3 teams in UCD when Ciaran was a student there and all his classmates joined. Same for DIT and Colin Brosnan. When these two left... so the students left. I can safely say (as I have hard data to prove it) that the reduction in number is due to the collapse of the ecomomy and Irish students not being interested. The european lads are still here, playing handball. Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with the UCC tournament. But I hurge you to be carefull with your enthusiasm as UCC turned around very quickly before. Benny, you know that more than others. I just want to say...don't let them to kill your enthusiasm.

Dont worry dude, it wont and the tournament has been conformed. The invitation is been done up by myself and the UCC committee on Sunday.(and yes i aware about the pitfalls surrounding the PE office there)

I dont agree with you on one thing and even if you have hard data to prove it that the reduction is due to the collaspe of the economy. If people want to play handball, they will play handball. if they dont, they dont.They are clubs left so they could join them, simple as that.I dont think handball is an expensive sport.
Anyway im not here to create new conflicts, im only looking towards the future. Help me out in getting it to every club so that they know the tournament is happening

Benny, I'll put a new post for your tournament. On the topic we were talking about. You misunderstood. It is not that people have no money and they don't play. But People are simply not in Ireland anymore. This is a hard fact you can-t ignore, as all hard facts. Let's go through the past few years. DCU was a student team and it still there as student team and willbe there till a leader is there (1->1). DIT was an Irish student team, slowly became an european employed team. All Irish student left (lost the leader Colin), all european employed are still there as DI (1->1)(or 1->0,0->1). St.Pat's, similar to DIT. The student leader left (Cuniffe), so the students. The emplyed were here till they disagreed with IOHA fees (1->0 lost a team). Lughnasa had 2 teams,with quite a few european. Ask Tom why there is only one Lughnasa now. My guess is internal policy and less european around (2->1, lost a team). Pelekas, old Irish dudes...age took them away i.e.no youth policy (1->0, lost a team).UCD had 3 teams.one was all Ciarán class mate (loss of leader). the other two were mixture of european and students. European were and are still here, Students, we really need a leader in college, plus back then we were blessed with a higher number of european student and postgrad. So till last year we got mainly europen emplyed and one team. This year we have a student team as well (found a new student leader) So in summary it is a 3->1 or 3->2. Money was an issue for PAt's only, but back then 750 euro per team was really too much (plus reg etc...). And on the money issue you should add hall rent costs for the entire year for trainig etc...

So, what do I think the future (5 years) reserve? DCU 30% will here (-1), DI 10% wil lbe here (-1), Kildare 60% will be here (0), Lughnasa 100% will be here (0), UCD 50% will be here (0? need to be taken care of), Astra 100% (0)will be here. So I think My self and Tom agree on this...only clubs with junior will be here 100%. But again we can't afford to loose the others. because handball can't survive for long and improve fast with 2/3 clubs. We will always need the one or two odd teams, so, we need to make sure these don't get pushed out. It will take probably 5 more years before Sligo and Meath come on the line....or it might never happen as well. I think this is fair analysis in my opinion.

Lot of training for the Irish boys and total lack of results? Is it time to change the coach?